“Democracy means always having alternatives”

The adoption of the SDGs and the Paris Climate Agreement are considered milestones in international sustainability policy. Does this now give the Great Transformation the boost it needs?

Klaus Töpfer: Unfortunately, a lot has changed since these two agreements were passed a year and a half ago. We have a new president in the USA who has – to put it mildly – ​​a different basic attitude towards issues of this kind. In Europe, a populist renationalization debate is underway in various countries. And this at a time when the negative effects of human activity on the natural foundations of life are becoming increasingly noticeable worldwide. It's almost absurd to think that you can deal with this on your own! With regard to sustainability, it is great that the 2030 Agenda is finally questioning the lifestyle and development structures of highly developed countries. Nevertheless, I see with great concern that there are countercurrents in Germany and Europe and that scientific facts are no longer taken into account.

Do debates about post-growth and a more frugal lifestyle even have a chance in this “post-truth” social climate, which gives right-wing parties enormous popularity?

We must take the rise of populism and the rise of the right wing very seriously. And in the discussion about ecological needs and the concrete implementation of the 17 SDGs, we must make it clear that these are already questions of survival for us as humanity. People turn away from science and politics when they feel that they no longer have any alternatives. Democracy means always having alternatives. That's why I've repeatedly pointed out that a society whose bad word of 2010 is “no alternative” has to come to terms with the fact that it has angry citizens. We must do more to make clear alternatives to the status quo.

However, these alternatives should not always be accompanied by the word renunciation, but rather with the joy of a different, better life. And we have to say very clearly that all of this has an ecological dimension, but of course there are also social consequences associated with it. Sustainability is not just ecology, but has something to do with social and economic stability.

The consistent implementation of the Paris Climate Agreement and the 2030 Agenda could further intensify the social distribution struggles. How can constructive countermeasures be taken?

Every change, every major change brings some people new perspectives and opportunities, while others lose perspectives and opportunities as a result. For example, if it is necessary – and it is necessary – that we phase out coal-fired power generation in Germany in the foreseeable future, then we must see that this has consequences for the lifestyles of the people who live in Lusatia or the Rhenish Revier. We cannot simply ignore their needs. No, we have to get the people affected to support the change with offers. A distribution battle is always to be feared when someone says: “I'm not interested in what disadvantages you have, I only see my advantages.” The transformation will take place with significantly less tension if we are as concerned about the people who are losing as we are about the fact that others are winning.

The transformation is taking place at a time when millions of people are fleeing their homes due to armed conflicts and worsening environmental conditions. What can sustainability policy do to stabilize the situation?

So far we have mainly been dealing with people who are fleeing cruel military conflicts, which are mostly religious conflicts. The great flow of climate refugees hasn’t really begun yet. We must therefore now invest even more specifically in regions where poverty, hunger, underdevelopment and hopelessness prevail. The aim must be to eliminate the causes of flight that result from overuse or damage to the natural resources in such regions. Otherwise, when people see no other way out, they will inevitably migrate to the world's poles of growth and prosperity.

So environmental policy should function as a precautionary peace policy?

We need an early warning system for conflicts. We need to know: Where are there major problems with water supply? Where are production opportunities in agriculture being altered by climate change, thereby threatening livelihoods? And we need a precautionary disarmament policy for tensions and, above all, people who go where something is brewing in order to develop and implement solutions together with those affected.

There are many non-governmental organizations that have extensive experience with this and enjoy local credibility. Institutions such as Oxfam, Welthungerhilfe and others have been on site for a long time. They are much more than the fire department that intervenes when there is already a fire. For example, they are thinking about how seeds can be further developed to withstand drought better. Or how these terrible losses after the harvest can be reduced through infrastructure measures such as investments in roads and cooling systems. This can be called a precautionary peace policy because it strives to avoid catastrophes.

What role can a rich country like Germany play in this process?

Germany and Europe can show the world that living sustainably means taking responsibility. The energy transition shows that rich countries can develop technologies that give access to many. Renewable energies are not only very important in terms of their ecological benefits, they are also important for democracy. Because suddenly many people have the opportunity to participate in decisions about energy issues. We have over 900 energy cooperatives in this country. Thousands of people are thinking about how they can generate their own energy. In this way, they actively shape technological progress and are no longer an object, but rather a subject of research and development.

It is also becoming increasingly clear that the energy transition is not something that only rich countries can afford. On the contrary, it also offers development opportunities to poor countries, which can use it to produce their own energy at competitive prices. Renewables are a democratic technology that can contribute greatly to the stability of a world with nine billion people.

The interview was conducted by Anke Oxenfarth